Curse

{IceFire} · Feb 23, 2008, 09:24 PM // 21:24

This debate is retarded.

Tyla · Feb 23, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by {IceFire}

This debate is retarded.

Agreed.
You already have people against Ursan, and PvE stuff for that matter.
But removing Ursan will bring ALOT more QQ about GW:EN.
It's been done and can't be undone now.

Mr. Undisclosed · Feb 23, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

+1 before the thread dies.

Ursan wins, QQs fail, end of story.

vixro · Feb 23, 2008, 09:42 PM // 21:42

/signed.

I use it and exploit it. (aka, use it in excessive amounts like 3-5 Ursans + 3 monks, everywhere in the game)

It's way too strong and needs to be taken out. It basically ruins the game by dumbing it down and requiring no skill to do anything. Mix it with some consumables and nothing in the game is a challenge on any front.

dargon · Feb 23, 2008, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by vixro

/signed.

I use it and exploit it. (aka, use it in excessive amounts like 3-5 Ursans + 3 monks, everywhere in the game)

It's way too strong and needs to be taken out. It basically ruins the game by dumbing it down and requiring no skill to do anything. Mix it with some consumables and nothing in the game is a challenge on any front.

That's no different than any other build in the game. Take 5 assassins + 3 monks, all assassins running death blossom and you'll see groups get mowed down just as fast, IF NOT FASTER.

Tyla · Feb 23, 2008, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargon

That's no different than any other build in the game. Take 5 assassins + 3 monks, all assassins running death blossom and you'll see groups get mowed down just as fast, IF NOT FASTER.

That can be blocked. And you have to start your combo when that enemy dies. Ursan is also a 3-second recharge with a PBAoE KD.
Can be affected by antimelee.
Unlike Ursan, doesn't give you +200hp, +20 armour. (providing you have r10)
Also it's 180 armour ignoring damage per ursan. (again, providing you have r10)

Darrk Assassin · Feb 24, 2008, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Ursan is really good for any caster class. This allows them to go through the game easier. So they can attack first, plus cheaper price's isn't always bad. I cuts the time down so the casual player can get the full gw experience.

pfaile · Feb 24, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

So, according to this thread, as a Paragon for me to be "legite" I need to remove SY, TNTF, make sure I never join an Ursan Group, never ever use a consumable, don't use any other pve skill especially the overpowered pain inverter, and don't run sabway group of heros. WOW!!!

Should we cry for anet to implement wooden weapons tht do half damage?

I wonder if this is what the NFL sounded like after the forward pass was introduced. IT'S TO POWERFUL, WHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

Well, guess I will have to keep being less of a player than you guys, TNTF stays, so does pain inverter, and when the time comes I will join a UB group again.

But at least the few of you can stroke your egos and think that at least you worked hard to have fun in a game.

Splitisoda · Feb 24, 2008, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Explain, how?
People have done it before without PvE only stuff, and with H/H on most places of PvE.
Yes, without Sabway. (Insane Energy Management, Minions go boom 100 damage even armour-ignoring, 66% damage reduction from weakness...but mostly the Soul Reaping primary)

Ok. 20 atrib lvl 28 monsters, against a lvl 20, 16 max atrib human. So i herd we die? PvE is literally (in my eyes) pvp, except its unfair.

Aryn Rand · Feb 24, 2008, 01:58 AM // 01:58

PvE is extremly easy as long as you got competent players with builds you want them to run and your all going for the same goal.

But thats called pvp and rarly exists in pve, the most efficent groups I have been in pve is 2 ursans 3 necros 1 more healer and 2 nukers. Not full human groups.

Ursan and consumables makes the pve fun, if you want challenge go to pvp and play against lvl 20 mobs with limited energy same armor and the same skills as you.

yes no?

Darkobra · Feb 24, 2008, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitisoda

Ok. 20 atrib lvl 28 monsters, against a lvl 20, 16 max atrib human. So i herd we die? PvE is literally (in my eyes) pvp, except its unfair.

And yet, I can do it without any PVE skills. I'm too lazy to give you the lecture on how to do it properly. I'm sure if you've played the game for more than 4 months, you can figure it out.

Isileth · Feb 24, 2008, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splitisoda

Ok. 20 atrib lvl 28 monsters, against a lvl 20, 16 max atrib human. So i herd we die? PvE is literally (in my eyes) pvp, except its unfair.

Are you seriousely saying that?

The AI are at a huge disadvantage, they are AI. They have fixed builds, they generally have very poor builds, they cant combo skills or work well as a team etc etc etc.

The player has a huge advantage, they know exactly what skills the enemy will use, they can change their build to counter the enemy, they can work together, they can combo skills etc etc etc.

The only thing that makes PvE even slightly difficult is the higher level of the AI. Without that it would be even easier than it already is!

Besides, how do you think people managed in Prof/Factions?
The fact that people are now dependant on PvE skills shows you how much it dumbs down the game.

Konig Des Todes · Feb 24, 2008, 03:26 AM // 03:26

I have nothing against ursan, nor do I care about prices going down. But, I do want Ursan to be nerfed, at least to the point where it is just as good as a regular team set up, I like running non-ursan builds. And whenever I try to pug with people for elite areas, I'm always told to go ursan which gets really annoying.
My suggetion is that Ursan is nerfed for non-Ursan areas, or non-EN areas.I didn't read all of the wants about Ursan Blessing, so if my suggestion was already made, my apologies, but I figured i should post my idea.

Hyper Cutter · Feb 24, 2008, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

if DoA wasn't such a retarded area to begin with, it wouldn't need/bow down to such a retarded 'skill'.

Quoted for truth.

Pleikki · Feb 24, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

PvE Only skills should be removed from other campaings then Eotn..

Abedeus · Feb 24, 2008, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darrk Assassin

Ursan is really good for any caster class. This allows them to go through the game easier. So they can attack first, plus cheaper price's isn't always bad. I cuts the time down so the casual player can get the full gw experience.

What experience? Reading a book/eating/watching tv at the same time as ,,playing'' Ursanway in Hard Mode dungeon is an experience? Even first Rayman game is more challenging than Ursan Oo

And pve-only skills shouldn't be removed. Just some of them should be nerfed, so they are not better than some elite skills, and elite pve skills shouldn't be better than ANY other skill.

And stop saying ,,Debate is retarded'' or ,,QQ more''. If you have nothing constructive to say, just be quiet and play with your imbalanced skill. Skill, not skillbar, of course.

Stormlord Alex · Feb 24, 2008, 06:33 AM // 06:33

I'm gonna start by quoting myself from some other Ursan thread...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Ursan is a 'blessing' because it lets people who are bad at PvE (yes, it is somehow possible) beat PvE.

That's the simple truth.

The real discussion is whether people who are bad at PvE deserve to be able to beat PvE (i.e., use Ursan) or whether they should be forced to lern2play.

It's got to the point now where the PvE community, on the whole, is so atrociously bad at the game that they need Ursan as a crutch to beat the harder areas.

That's partly the fault of the players themselves - ignorance of game mechanics, and a lack of desire to put in effort required to get better; and partly the fault of the PvE game design - normal mode is so unbelievably easy, you can beat it with atrocious bars and little knowledge of the game, and the game itself does not force the player to get better to beat it (and the very seldom areas that forced this, they just PuGed and hoped to get a bright spark to carry them through - Gate of Madness, Raisu Palace and THK anyone?).

Then along comes DoA and Hard Mode, and because the average player hasn't had to learn how to play the game to beat it, these areas are simply 'too hard'

Untill Ursan, one skill that lets any player - no matter how bad - beat any area, regardless of difficulty.

If we remove Ursan, the majority will then need to learn how to play to win at areas they were previously rolling with Ursan, however - given that pre-Ursan they didn't want to learn (look at tank-n-spank, the idiot's way to beat DoA/anywhere), what makes you think they'll want to learn if Ursan is removed? More like, they'll get frustrated at the PvE they, and ANet, created for themselves, get bored, and move on. And A-Net will lose a lot of potential customers for GW2.

Ursan is bad in that it devalues accomplishments in PvE, and removes any element of skill that was left.

However, it's an incredibly good thing (for ANet) because without it, the majority of the PvE playerbase (who, frankly, suck and have little to no intention of getting better) would leave because they can't get their ph4t lewtz (losing ANet a lot of potential future custom).

arcanemacabre · Feb 24, 2008, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

However, it's an incredibly good thing (for ANet) because without it, the majority of the PvE playerbase (who, frankly, suck and have little to no intention of getting better) would leave because they can't get their ph4t lewtz (losing ANet a lot of potential future custom).

Well, kinda true. I'm thinking that in the long run, it will end up being just plain bad for everyone. This is because even these people who use it as a crutch in the elite areas will eventually get bored of it. It only takes a few times for even the worst player to get used to how to use Ursan well, and that same bar with those same boring skills will end up killing the whole game for them. They're not going to want to try anything else, either, because everything else pales in comparison, and will just quit playing - likely to not buy GW2 (it will probably be just as boring, eh?).

That is the long-term harm that will come, and at this point, is entirely unavoidable. These people will leave right away if Ursan is nerfed, or leave eventually if it isn't. I could be wrong, but that's how I'm seeing it going down.

Stormlord Alex · Feb 24, 2008, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Well, kinda true. I'm thinking that in the long run, it will end up being just plain bad for everyone. This is because even these people who use it as a crutch in the elite areas will eventually get bored of it. It only takes a few times for even the worst player to get used to how to use Ursan well, and that same bar with those same boring skills will end up killing the whole game for them. They're not going to want to try anything else, either, because everything else pales in comparison, and will just quit playing - likely to not buy GW2 (it will probably be just as boring, eh?).

That is the long-term harm that will come, and at this point, is entirely unavoidable. These people will leave right away if Ursan is nerfed, or leave eventually if it isn't. I could be wrong, but that's how I'm seeing it going down.

Also true, but that's more to do with GW itself than Ursan - there simply isn't enough content (PvE-wise) to keep people hanging around, and I'm willing to bet my shiniest penny that most of the PvE crowd couldn't care one whit about doing any PvP after running out of ph4t lewtz to grind.

And that's something ANet might want to think about - how do they ensure that people playing GW1 will return to GW2, or how can they get them hanging on to GW1 untill GW2 comes out?

Short of releasing a whole new game in the original GW saga, they can either...
- encourage the PvE base to pick up PvP (somehow... hard

)
- make GW2 so incredibly awesome, that people will come back to it (and asides from all the crying at QQ me a Riverside, GW2 does look to be fairly interesting)
- Sorrow's Furnace, MK II, III and IV - this would work, if ANet are willing to put the effort in. I mean, PvEers always want more ph4t lewt to grind and farm for... right?

holy shit I type a lot after another night without sleep

*insert lolcat here*

mafia cyborg · Feb 24, 2008, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleikki

PvE Only skills should be removed from other campaings then Eotn..

agreed.
actually they should only be limited to dungeons or special missions.
the only way to balance skilss is to confront them against each other....and thats pvp.

might aswell introduce god mode or speed cheats in a future update.